Comments on Uncle’s “Ivy’s considering getting a gun” post? Feel free to comment here. 
-
1
Pingback on Oct 18th, 2007 at 10:53 am
[...] was talking off line with Nashville’s Bad Bad Ivy (known to most of you by her cleavage) about guns. Seems she’s interested in pursuing [...]
Leave a Comment
-
Flickr Photos
More Photos -
-
GoodGood Stuff
-
It’s Ivy, the Great & Powerful, Bitches!
-
Recent Comments
Samuel L. on My pedicure brings all the boy… Amy @ Milk Breath … on family ties Chicken Liver on family ties Jeff on A weird talent I just realized… SuperMousey on family ties yan on world famous blogger interview… Randy on Dear Southeast Signature Motor… justcheryl on family ties Repercussion on family ties chip on family ties hii..b.k.lahkar on My pedicure brings all the boy… Darla on Miracle Darla on family ties Ginger on My pedicure brings all the boy… humanrug13 on My pedicure brings all the boy… -
Stalking me
-
Subscribe
-
Credits & Threats
-
October 18, 2007 at 11:02 am
I’m gonna jump in and recommend a Bersa .380.
It’s affordable and well made, easy to shoot and ammo’s not very expensive. A good carry gun, but not too small.
BUT: your best bet is to get to a range and rent a few to see what you like, and what likes you.
October 18, 2007 at 11:08 am
A Glock if your hands are big enough a revolver or small auto othrwise. It depends on your budget really. There are some deals on police trade-in Glocks out there – revolvers and autos can be had relatively inexpensively at pawn shops too.
BTW, I’m near Nashville in Gallatin and would be willing to help you out with this in any way including shooting any of my guns with ammo supplied – you now have my email addy.
October 18, 2007 at 11:15 am
Number one look around your area & see if there any decent Instructors, local gun clubs are a good place to look.
Some offer classes & will provide you with different guns to try.
If you are looking to purchase, you might check local ranges many have rental guns that you can try.
Main thing get one that feels good in your hand.
For caliber think 9mm or 38 special, the one problem with .380 auto is it has a torque recoil, depending on the gun it can be worse than a 9mm, also 9mm ammo is cheaper than the .380 auto.
October 18, 2007 at 11:19 am
I’ll agree with Rustmeister. I love my Bersa .380. My wife, on the other hand wants a bigger, louder gun, so I guess it is all about personal preference. As for an inexpensive, reliable, easy-to-maintain, easy-to-shoot firearm, the Bersa fits the bill.
October 18, 2007 at 11:22 am
Is it possible to get a quieter gun? I mean, I know they’re not going to be totally quiet, but I had no idea you could find something quieter. Yeah, total n00b, that’s me.
October 18, 2007 at 11:33 am
A .22 rifle is quieter.
October 18, 2007 at 11:39 am
I second Rustmeister’s advice about renting.
Some ranges will let you try out several different rental guns for one rental fee, just return one and pick out another one to try.
I recently went through this with my wife.
She tried everything from compact 1911 style .45acp to several variations and brands of pistols in .40 S&W, 9mm, .380 and revolvers in .38 and .357.
I really thought a .380 would be her choice because she hasn’t been shooting long and doesn’t like a lot of recoil; but because of differences mechanisms an weights, she felt the perceived recoil and muzzle flip of a Glock 9mm was less than the Bersa .380.
That is a win-win for her because the 9mm is a significantly more powerful round than .380. She ended up choosing the Glock 19 over the Bersa .380 (which is basically a knockoff of the Walther PP). She never found anything bigger than a 9mm that she could fire without flinching, the Glocks were more comfortable to her than other models and she liked the simplicity of operation.
Anyway, that’s not to say that your experiences will mirror hers…the point is to try as many different guns in as many different calibers as you can.
Choose a gun that you are comfortable with, like the ergonomics, can shoot accurately and (if you plan on carrying it) is light enough that you’d be willing to carry it all day.
Everyone is different, both in physical characteristics and in tastes. The only one that can pick what’s best for you is you so try to make it as informed a decision as possible.
FWIW
October 18, 2007 at 12:01 pm
I think it’s really neat that you can rent guns to try them out before owning them. I had no idea you could do that!
October 18, 2007 at 12:54 pm
(cross posted from SayUncle)
Not much else I can say here… but I will
Try before you buy.
Everyone is different, and every gun feels different to different people. To me a Beretta 9mm (short frame version, don’t know the actual term for the model) is a nail driver. It just fits my hand very well and is very comfortable to shoot.
I like the way the Desert Eagles (full size 9mm) fit my hand, but not sure about the accuracy (haven’t shot one yet) since the barrel length is a touch shorter (.5″) than other guns with the same overall length (ie Glocks, Berettas, S&Ws in the same caliber).
I can’t shoot most ‘compact’ guns because when firing I hit the magazine release with my thumb. Not fun having to go look for the magazine after the first shot.
Guess my first sentence summed everything up. You have to find what works for you: caliber, type, and model. Only real way to do that is to try out as many different firearms as you can, then go from there. And don’t discard a brand or caliber just because someone said it sucked. You have to make your own decision about what feels best for you.
October 18, 2007 at 1:28 pm
The best advice I’ve seen so far is “Try them.” I bought my wife a 38 double action only revolver. She had trouble squeezing the trigger smoothly. Tried a XD 357sig. She really liked the way it felt in her hand, until she shot it. She had trouble with initial slide operation (racking the slide) and the recoil was way more than she could tolerate comfortably. She does like the desert baby eagle in 9mm. It is full size (1911 style) but again she can not “rack it” so it’s not much use as a self defense tool. I’m hoping to get her a good 38 revolver double/single action. If she doesn’t like it will.
October 18, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Ivy, go to a gunshop, and make sure you can cycle the slide of a semi-auto easily enough for it to be practical. If you can’t, that narrows your choices right away.
If you want reasonably inexpensive yet practical, consider a Taurus .357 revolver. You can use 38 specials for practice, and the larger round for carry. Very little to learn in the way of controls – point and click interface.
My advice – avoid the glock. I’ve seen them jam, and seen what it takes to clear the jam.
Good luck!
October 18, 2007 at 1:34 pm
OH, BTW, I carry a PPK 380. Easy concealment, accurate, good personal protection.
If I wore a coat, I’d carry a 45 of some type. Probably a glock model 30 since I have one.
October 18, 2007 at 1:37 pm
I’m happy with my Glock 19.
October 18, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I like my Bersa .380 and will second the suggestion to give it a look. I’ll also tout the former Soviet bloc’s small pistol, the Makarov. These are small, very reliable guns. Mine is surprisingly accurate. All steel so a little heavier to carry than the Bersa, but that also helps ’suck up’ some perceived recoil.
A few links you might find useful:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/MakarovBersa.htm
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/makarov.htm
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Bargain%20Guns%20III.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/Bersa_Thunder380.htm
October 18, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Ivy,
Having read SayUncle’s post, and the above posts, I am guessing you are considering a gun for self-defense purposes. Three recommendations:
1. +1 on the “try them.” Sometimes tough to do, but I hope your area has a range with a wide selection of rentals. Nothing beats wrapping your hand around one and sending rounds down range to see how it goes.
Caveat on the “try them” routine — go get some decent, reliable training first, if you can. You will be a lot more educated about what you want in a handgun once you have some decent training and skills. See recommendation number three below.
2. My principle on choosing handguns for self-defense: Choose a gun that holds the most and the biggest bullets that is absolutely RELIABLE, that I can shoot ACCURATELY, and that I am willing to CARRY anywhere.
Reliability is numero uno. It must go bang when I need it to. All the other attributes don’t matter if it doesn’t go off when I need it. Some effort is required on my part — cleaning, right ammo for the gun, etc, but given that it must be good for shooting several hundred rounds without a hitch.
Accuracy is also up there. Not only the accuracy of the gun, but MY accuracy with it. I must be 100% on target, each time. Stray rounds in a self-defense situation do not help me, and may very well hurt someone innocent. Most brand name guns have excellent combat accuracy. However, if I can’t shoot it properly, because it is too big, or too loud, or the recoil bothers me, or whatever — then it is the wrong gun.
Carrying the gun all the time is essential. You do not get to choose when you will need it — the bad guy gets to choose that. You will only carry the gun to places where you think you won’t need it — if you knew you were going to go to a place where you would be attacked, you wouldn’t go, would you? So the gun has to be of a size and shape that you are willing to make a part of your life 24/7. And I am not a big fan of having a different gun for different clothes, or a “house gun” or any of that. I stick with one gun and try to learn to use it really well.
As for biggest bullets — All the reading and studying on pistol calibers I have done tells that caliber is down the priority lists. Bigger bullets are somewhat better than smaller bullets, but the difference is not great — the great difference is in hitting the bad guy accurately and repeatedly. If you can do that with a .500 magnum, great, but if all you can handle is the .380 ACP, then that’s what you go with (altho I think if you can handle .380, you can handle 9mm and that is a big step up in stopping power). The point is you have to be able to hit your target or the caliber doesn’t matter.
As for the most bullets (number of rounds) — You can find all kinds of advice and studies that show only a few rounds are exchanged in most/average gun fights. That’s great. You are not considering carrying a gun because of averages, but because you might be faced with an extreme situation — a fight for your life. And that could include more than one assailant. Ergo, I like to have lots of rounds available. If there not used, no harm done. If they are needed, and not there….
For me, this worked out to be a Browning Hi Power in 9mm. It is a full size service pistol that fits my stubby little fingers very well. Reliable, accurate in my hands, holds 14 rounds and can hold 17), and is very flat and easy to conceal in an IWB holster.
3. MOST IMPORTANT RECOMMENDATION: GET SOME QUALITY TRAINING. You won’t necessarily find get this with your gun nut buddies, or at the range or wherever. If you are going to spend the $$ on a gun and all the accoutrements, be prepared to spend the same amount on training. Find somebody with a good reputation, and if all possible, do this before you buy a gun, or at least be willing to trade in whatever you buy for something that fits you better after you’ve had enough experience to know what you want.
My personal recommendation is/are John and Vickie Farnam (defense-training.com). They provide a excellent “full spectrum” training — legal aspects of self-defense, how to avoid getting in a shooting situation in the first place, how to deal with the cops in case that failed, how to safely load, carry, unload, and shoot your gun, strategies to use if you do have to use your gun — really excellent courses, and well beyond what you will get in any state-mandated concealed carry class. Vickie teaches the Basic handgun courses, and she is a great coach. Go check out their website. There are other good trainers, but these are people who I, and alot of other people, have had a great experience with.
Gee whiz, this seems like a lot to consider, but it is (only some) of the stuff you need to think through if you are going to get a gun. I think you should have one, and I think you should be mentally and physically competent with it.
Best wishes to you.
Eric
p.s. I just read your “about me”. I am definitely not a “liberal,” — but I do have six cats, and they all know they rule the house. Even the dog (especially the dog) knows that.
October 18, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Ivy, get a shotgun. 2 reasons, you can’t miss and you can’t miss (double barrell).
October 18, 2007 at 7:15 pm
I would recommend in the handgun catagory a .357magnum loaded with .38 special. Heavy frame and smaller ammo offers a good gun with a good round, plus lower recoil. A revolver also is less prone to the fumble factor. In the dark, even trained people(look up AD(accidental discharges)) can make errors. A revolver is the simplest form of point and click interfaces for a night time stress filled occassion.
If a shotgun is what you wish(and it WILL be noisy to shoot) I would recommend a Mossberg or Winchester.
Ivy. If you want my brother and I can take you out to a friends house and you can try his Ruger p345(in .45acp) and my S&W 65 in 357/38. Give me a weeks notice to make the arrangements.
October 18, 2007 at 9:01 pm
My $0.02…
As part of training, determine how much time and money you are willing to spend on practice. This is a use it or lose it skill like any other and a semiautomatic does require a little more skill to operate than a revolver.
October 18, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Ivy,
I live down in M’boro and we have a good range here called On Target. They are an indoor range with a pretty good selection of rental handguns, one on one instruction, carry permit classes. As a plus for you they have a couple of women that work there who I have seen go out to great lengths to help out women who are there looking.
I have a co-worker that likes Guns and Leather up in Nashville due to a larger selection on hand and they offer a free range pass or two with a handgun purchase, but I’m not sure about the classes they offer.
There is a shop in Franklin that has an excelent selection, but I hear they are a little pricey and they do not have a range on site.
I’ve got a couple of guest passes for the M’boro range so drop me a line if you are interested.
Good luck
October 19, 2007 at 2:44 am
I’m going to be repeating other people hear but…
Number one, Practice, the caliber and how many rounds don’t matter if you can’t hit the target. A lot of people suggest .357 revolver so you can practice with .38 special and carry .357 for defense, this is a good idea .38 will be a bit cheaper and you can send more rounds down the range without getting tired and sore but every range trip shoot some of your carry ammo so that you are used to shooting the higher power rounds. My self defense gun is an semi auto every trip to the range I shoot the magazine of defense loads and then reload with the cheaper practices rounds the benefit is that I know that my defense ammo is 100% reliable.
For a polymer frame semi auto I’d recommend checking out the Springfield XD series the angle of the grip is a little different from the Glocks it fits some people better also it has a grip safety like a 1911. For a steel frame semi auto I like the CZ-75’s there are 9mm, the full size frame uses 16 round magazines the compacts hold 14. I picked up a new CZ-75 compact for $360 last year and it has been completely reliable except when I tried some cheap aftermarket magazines. Also Crimson Trace makes laser grips for them.
October 19, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Another vote for ‘try things out’. When I was trying to decide what would be good for a defense gun for my daughter we went to a local range that rents guns and- along with a couple of mine- let her try out a few.
In her case, she doesn’t care for revolvers, and after holding one she flat refused to even shoot a Glock; she really liked a Sig P229 and my Kimber(dammit, she’s got expensive tastes!) Actually holding different pistols and shooting some really cleared things up.
Personally, I like revolvers and semi-autos both. Try both out.
October 19, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Following up on my post over at Uncle’s place.
Yes, there are quieter and louder guns. And for each gun there is quieter and louder ammo.
The main reason my .357 is so astonishingly loud is because it’s a 2″ snubbie – heck, the cartridge is almost as long as the barrel so you *know* most of the powder is being burned after the bullet has left the barrel.
My ever-indulgent wife has a little .22 revolver with a 2″ barrel – it’s noticeably louder than our other .22’s with longer barrels. Stings when you shoot it too – it’s a S&W AirWeight and manages to be light enough to give actual recoil from a .22
Remember my suggesstion to double-plug when you’re first trying out a gun / guns. Put in ear plugs and then put on a pair of shooting muffs as well. This will cut the noise down so far you won’t have to worry about reacting to it rather than the actual recoil.
On the subject of semi-autos: if you have trouble racking the slide look / ask for ones with a ‘two stage recoil spring’. These will probably be the smaller guns more suited to carry. What I’m talking about is the spring inside the gun that absorbs some of the recoil. On say, a full-size 1911 it’s one long spring. On many other guns (Taurus PT-111, XD9SC, G26, Bersa Firestorm) it’s a pair of springs (one inside the other). They do it mostly to let them put more spring in a smaller space. The side effect is that they can use a softer (easier to compress) spring for the first stage because there’s the second spring to compress after you get done with the first one. Most people that have trouble racking a slide have trouble getting it started so the two-stage thing helps. Avoid HK’s though – they use a two stage system with a very stiff first stage. I’ve had trouble racking the slide on a couple of HK’s I’ve tried in the store.
Now off to your blog’s home page to see if you’ve put up an ‘OK, who wants to help me learn to shoot?’ post yet.
October 19, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I’m going to weigh in with a couple of unpopular points:
1) If you are thinking in terms of self or family defence, remember that statistically, the gun is much more likely to hurt you or your children than a bad guy.
2) If you think things through and decide that you really want to have a gun in the house, PLEASE get a gun safe. I know that you want to get to your piece in a hurry if there is an emergency, but also be aware that there is no place you can hide a gun that your kids can’t find it.
3) Get good training and keep in constant practice. It is morally indefensible to own a gun and not be able to use it properly.
4) When your children are old enough, have them trained as well. We live in a gun-filled culture and they should know about basic gun safety and have respect for firearms.
I know that none of this answers your basic question. (For what it’s worth, I always wanted an Ithaca Bear Stopper – a pump shotgun with a good combination of efficiency and coolness.)
October 20, 2007 at 6:51 pm
“If you are thinking in terms of self or family defence, remember that statistically, the gun is much more likely to hurt you or your children than a bad guy.”
Wrong. Bad guys run off due to defensive gun use: 700K-1.2M per year. Children killed with firearms about 200.
“PLEASE get a gun safe”
Keep it accessible yet out of sight and hard to get to. There are many quick open gun safes. I keep weapon on top an armoire.
October 21, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Don’t let anyone tell you what you should have.
Gather suggestions, then head down to the range and try them.
Story time….
My wife wanted a Walther P99. She has a P22 and thought big brother would be the perfect gun. So, I was dumb and got her one. She was, to be frank, a danger to herself and other with that. Then she finally (after much begging) tried her dad’s XD.
45 shots from 7 yards in a 6 inch pie plate.
It’s not Dogie Keonig, but it’s minute of bad guy rapid fire good enough.
(BTW: The next day, the Walther was trade bait on an XD9.)
Listen, gather, then try. You’ll know the one that’s right.
December 5, 2007 at 9:56 am
Your About page says you are a mother of three. With kids in the house, you might want to think twice before bringing a gun inside your home. Nobody wants to think it could happen to them, but children die from guns in the home.
Ever thought about Karate?